MARILYN LEE: Today we're talking with Josh Ellis who is the Executive Director of Union Baptist Association. For those of you who'd heard the interview with Tom Billings, you know that UBA played a huge role in starting Loving Houston, so today we get to hear a little bit about Josh's vision for the churches of UBA as they go and make disciples of all nations. You also get a little peek behind-the-scenes of how churches make decisions, which may be especially interesting for schools in partnerships.
MARILYN: What do you love about Houston?
JOSH ELLIS: I feel like there's a lot of pressure in this question. I like the food. My sister in Colorado said compared to Houston, there's really nothing in Colorado you have to eat because everything there is just trying to compete with Houston. So, I really just love the diversity of food. I mean there's a lot of things to like but that's the first thing I run to.
MARILYN: As the Executive Director of Union Baptist Association, what are your dreams and goals for your churches?
JOSH: First off, you said "my" churches. I actually work for all those churches, and I think all of us at UBA hope that churches find a new level of collaboration as we seek to spread the gospel throughout Houston. What we want to do as an association is not just help our churches but also see them work together in new and effective ways.
Our core conviction is that the Great Commission—which is for churches to go and make disciples of all nations, all people—that command of Jesus is too big for any one church to accomplish by itself. Regardless of whatever church anybody's thinking that doesn't need to work with others, I have said it to that pastor.
We believe churches need to embrace that the Great Commission is not given to them and their 2-mile radius. It's given to the city. It's given to the Greater Houston area. If we're going to do that, then churches need to work together. So we need to keep finding ways for churches to help one another, to work with one another, to encourage one another, and we're kind of the instrument by which that happens.
“Churches need to embrace that the Great Commission isn’t given to them and their 2-mile radius. It’s given to the city, to the Greater Houston area. If we’re going to do that, then churches need to work together. ”
MARILYN: What are some of the ways that churches can work together?
JOSH: The first and easiest way that happens is with resources. Some churches have resources that other churches don't. We've seen some really cool stories where churches supply volunteers for a particular effort or help when a church comes up against hard times.
I know of a church that found out that they had a hole in the roof. They didn't have the cash on hand, so we reached out to a church across town. We said, "We know a great church that just found out that they need to replace the roof but insurance won't cover it." This other church said, "We can do that!" So, it's resourcing; it's people.
Another level we're moving toward is equipping. Some churches do a fantastic job raising up leaders from within themselves—like international missionaries for example. Other churches are ready to send money to the Cooperative Program or other entities but still want to know how to raise up their own missionaries and will lean on other churches to teach them how. That's where real partnerships happen.
Recently, I reached out to a church that does audio-visual really well. They went across town and walked through a smaller church giving advice, free of charge, of what to do before hiring an AV company, what kind of technology they'd need for their budget. Those are some examples of real partnerships that matter on a day-to-day basis.
MARILYN: That really looks like the body of Christ to me. It's not churches competing against each other but rather working together. I think that's really beautiful. There are so many amazing resources within our churches, and this is one of the reasons why I got involved in Loving Houston. I saw that so many of our churches have so many amazing resources—manpower and materials, skills, experiences—and if we could leverage that for the good of our community, we could really address challenges like poverty and make the world a different place.
And I feel like that's something UBA believes in, as well. I mean, you guys helped start Loving Houston, and your idea that you wanted to see churches love Houston.
Why do you feel that is so important for churches to not only care about their own congregations and their own people but also to care about the community?
JOSH: For churches to really be about the Great Commission and the mission of making disciples, they have to be about loving their communities. It's not just about proclaiming the word of God but about earning the trust of their community and earning the right to be heard. There's a balance of not just speaking the truth but also speaking the truth in love. So, we really encourage churches to know their contexts very well, know what's going on in their neighborhoods, and be cognizant not only of the needs but also of the assets of the community.
What are the things that need to be celebrated? Sometimes churches get involved in the community because they think the community is full of needs. That may be true in some areas, but every community also has things that are going for it. Churches always play a role in a community, so the partnership with schools is an element of that.
If churches ever come to us and ask, "How do we find out what's going on in our community?" we always start by asking where the nearest school is. Not only do schools know what's going on in the community, but where else are you going to find a better representation of the community in one place. Especially in the larger schools, you're going to see every economic scale, every racial group, every ethnic group, many languages spoken, so churches can really see what's going on in the community.
Churches that posture themselves in schools to ask how they can serve instead of coming in with a message or an agenda can really form relationships well. Being involved with schools is an integral part of being present in a community, and we encourage churches to do just that.
MARILYN: So much of that is what we try to teach in our workshops, so thank you so much. I feel like I hear there's often a lot of focus inward with churches, to really care for their congregation. What would you say to churches that are really thinking about that versus looking externally?
JOSH: I think there's a balance in ministry to care for the people inside the building and also make disciples. A church can't be faithful to the Word unless it is going and making disciples. A church that is constantly going and never caring for the people who have become disciples is also not being faithful to the Word. The church is tasked with both of those.
“There’s a balance in ministry to care for the people inside the building and also make disciples. ”
The healthiest churches I see are churches that walk that balance. The most dysfunctional churches that I see are the ones that completely turn inward and think they're not healthy enough to focus on disciple-making and witnessing. That usually isn't a function of their health but is a function of their fear. Often, the neighborhood has changed and they don't know how to talk to their neighbors anymore. Other times, people are driving so far to go to the church because they've always gone there that their definition of "neighbor" is very different. So, churches may not be reaching their local context anymore.
There are lots of different ways to do church. I'm not disparaging any one methodology or the other. Church is more complicated than a lot of people think it is. There's a lot going on in the mechanisms of the church. So, pray for the staff. Pray for the elders, deacons, and whatever kind of leaders.
MARILYN: Thanks for explaining that aspect of the church, that it really is complicated—the church does have to think internally and externally. We have seen, though, that as some churches start reaching out externally that it kind of lifts up the morale of the church so that's been kind of neat to see.
JOSH: Churches are like any other organization. When they see some positive results, there's a morale boost. Especially Christians, when they see that the Bible is true, that the word doesn't return void, and people come to faith because you are a part of leading them there, they see this really does work the way that it says it works. That gives you some encouragement to continue to share your faith. Sometimes the scariest time to share your faith is is the first time you do it because you think, “maybe it's just me who thinks this.” However, the first time that somebody says, “I believe that, too!” you get a little pep in your step. That momentum builds.
Similarly, the first time a church as an entity or an organization makes a difference in the life of the community, that builds energy within the church to see how God has put them in a place to make a difference—to love people, meet needs, and not just cuddle with each other on a Sunday morning or Wednesday night. We're here for a purpose and a mission, and if we're faithful to that then God's going to bless, and God's going to bless the place that we're in, Acts 17 says that were put in a place and a time so that people might come to know Him. So, I'm not surprised any time I see at church getting enthused because they take a step in a positive direction.
MARILYN: I want to go back to something you were saying previously because I know churches are complicated. This would be especially interesting for all the schools out there listening. We've had so many more schools contact us than church partners, and often there they don't understand why it can take so long for a church to build a relationship with them. So, it's good to know on both sides. Schools are complicated and there are a lot of different things have to happen within a school but then it's the same for the church. There are a lot of different steps that need to happen, people who need to get on board. So they may be interested; it just may take longer than expected.
JOSH: There's no one way to make a decision in a church. Some churches, the pastor will say to the congregation on Sunday morning, “This is what we're doing,” and the church wIll clap. Then all of a sudden on a Monday, that partnership takes place. In other churches, a member will come to a pastor on a Thursday night fellowship and say, “I think we should get involved in this school.” Then, the pastor will go do a visit and comment back to a committee. They will get it on the agenda for next month's meeting and talk about it then. So, these things really take time, and every church makes decisions in a different way. It's very complicated, and if I could streamline a process for all the churches out there, I might but it's never going to happen.
MARILYN: Thanks so much for the leadership that you're providing here and for all the dreams that you have for seeing the body of Christ work together—not only for the body of Christ within but also for the community as well. I really appreciate that .
JOSH: We're glad to be a part of helping Loving Houston in any way that we can and encouraging churches to get involved in a local schools because it's important. I have two elementary school students at home, so I know how important schools are and also the kind of help that they need. I've volunteered at the schools, my wife has volunteered there. It's hugely important and anything that we can do, we're happy to do.
MARILYN: I do want to make a plug for UBA. I've joined in on some of their workshops and gatherings, and I really feel like it's such an amazing resource for churches in the area—to not feel like they're alone and to be fed and prayed for. I really appreciate UBA and the ministry that they have here in Houston. We hope you'll join us next week, but until then we ask that you would subscribe, pass this on, or think about who else you can partner with.
